“Commercial champions are the secret sauce.’ With Nicola McMillan

Nicola McMillan leads the High Growth Spinout Programme at Scottish Enterprise. The Programme provides funding and support to help commercialise research which has the potential to make an impact globally. A core part of this programme is matching potential companies with commercial champions.

Sarah and Nicola talk about

• Why commercial champions are the ‘secret sauce’ 
• What makes an excellent commercial champion (and why it might not be what you think)
• The challenges of attracting the right people and why that is currently creating a bottleneck in the spinout process
• How all partners can work together to help fill the commercial champion pipeline  

Connect with Nicola on LinkedIn

Find out about the High Growth Spinout Programme

Follow the Academic Adventures podcast on LinkedIn 

This podcast was a collaboration between the University of the West of Scotland, Converge and Sarah McLusky, working in partnership with Ross Tuffee and The Connect-Ed Network. The podcast team includes Orla Kelly, Adam Kosterka, Jen Black and Sarah McLusky. This season of Academic Adventures is supported by the Scottish Funding Council.

Transcript

[00:00:01] Nicola McMillan: For me, the commercial champion role is the secret sauce. 

[00:00:04] Nicola McMillan: It's not the lack of research excellence. The research excellence is clear. So why are we not creating globally ambitious companies at scale?

[00:00:14] Nicola McMillan: When we've got a good commercial champion, it's a joy to be part of the journey alongside them. Yes, there's difficult parts. But what the projects have is a clear and focused vision about the what next on a month to month basis, and you can see the progress.

[00:00:31] Sarah McLusky: Welcome to the Academic Adventures Podcast. This podcast is all about the journey from teaching, research, and innovation to real world solutions. For season two, we are joined by experienced founders and other experts who work alongside university staff and students to help create and support a culture of enterprise on campus.

[00:00:51] Sarah McLusky: Hello, and welcome to the 10th episode in this series of Academic Adventures. I'm your host, Sarah McLusky, and my guest for today's conversation is Nicola McMillan. Nicola works for Scottish Enterprise where she leads the High Growth Spinout Programme. This program provides funding and support to help commercialise research in Scotland.

[00:01:09] Sarah McLusky: With 15 years experience in economic development, innovation, and company creation, Nicola is well placed to understand both the opportunities and challenges of the spinout process.

[00:01:20] Sarah McLusky: In keeping with our external experts theme, our conversation focuses on the role of commercial champions, although, as you will hear Nicola, like many of my other guests, doesn't love that term.

[00:01:30] Sarah McLusky: We talk about why commercial champions are the secret sauce to making the whole process work and what makes for an excellent commercial champion. We also talk about why there is currently more demand for commercial champions and supply, and what might be done to help fill that pipeline with the right kinds of people - people who have the experience and vision to help build globally impactful companies that take Scottish research to the world. 

[00:01:52] Sarah McLusky: Welcome along to the podcast, Nicola. It's fantastic to have you here as a slightly different guest for this series of the Academic Adventures Podcast. We'll come on to that in a moment. Let's, first of all, hear a bit about who you are and what you do.

[00:02:07] Nicola McMillan: Thanks Sarah. So thank you again for having me along. So my name's Nicola McMillan. I head up the high growth company creation team at Scottish Enterprise.

[00:02:17] Nicola McMillan: So again, slightly different. As you say, Scottish Enterprise is Scotland's economic development agency and we look to support the future generations of companies so that they can scale and have a positive effect on the economy.

[00:02:31] Nicola McMillan: The high growth company creation team has been around for. Probably over 20 years.

[00:02:37] Nicola McMillan: We were trying to work out actually the other day, how long it actually had been in the system, but somewhere between 20 and 25 years. So a lot of historical experience with universities and the commercialisation process. The previous guise of the Programmme was called the Proof of Concept Programmme, and that'll be known to a few of the academics. But we have evolved over that 20 years and certainly since I came in 2020 to lead the team.

[00:03:02] Nicola McMillan: We have moved on slightly to, reflect the sector today where the universities are, the level of ambition for commercialisation activity, and I suppose to reflect the support requirements that the universities require in order to successfully commercialize the research.

[00:03:20] Sarah McLusky: Yeah, so you're very much part of this academic entrepreneurship spin out ecosystem there, despite not yourself either being a commercial champion or a university academic, but very much in that sense, one of these external experts that we're hearing from in this series. It's just that your expertise is in a slightly different area.

[00:03:41] Sarah McLusky: So tell us a bit more about the High Growth Spin Out Programmme, what it entails, what's the kind of structure of it and the support that you offer? 

[00:03:50] Nicola McMillan: Yeah, so as I said we evolved the programmme around about five years ago to truly reflect the skills and experience of Scottish Enterprise. So where we could make an impact into the system at this point in time.

[00:04:03] Nicola McMillan: And really that comes from the commercialisation stage rather than the research and development stage of a company creation project. So we had a look at the gaps that some of these projects are experiencing when they go to raise investment or at the point of spin out, what were the real issues that the projects were having.

[00:04:23] Nicola McMillan: So we took it back to basic principles and developed the programmme to include factors such as genuine market validation. It has to be appropriate market validation. You're speaking to the genuine decision makers, you're getting feedback, and then that feedback will affect how your research and development programmme, contributes to the company creation.

[00:04:47] Nicola McMillan: We had to look at business modeling, et cetera and had a look at again, the scale of the opportunity. So how we actually impose some of that ambition and global ambition into the projects. One of the key contributing factors that we looked at as well was around about the team formation and how we can support the academic founding team to gain the experience of an external commercial person within that business.

[00:05:15] Nicola McMillan: So we evolved the programmme into a three phased programmme where it's, we've almost put stage gates in place. So at the first iteration of, it's called an opportunity qualification. I've tried to have names that, done exactly what it said it was going to do. So you think you've got an opportunity, prove it to us.

[00:05:33] Nicola McMillan: Yeah. And prove it to yourself. So go out to the market, speak to the right people. Understand then how they buy it, how you kinda transform that market, how you monetize that, how you build a company round about the opportunity. We then take it through a process where we involve external experts, subject matter experts, and investors who are friendly and friends of the High Growth Spinout Programmme to help us make the decision around about the next pot of funding or company creation funding.

[00:06:02] Nicola McMillan: And that just goes very much deeper into that company creation phase. So we accept at that point that there is an opportunity there that's global, that could be transformational, that you have the right building blocks in place. And that within kinda 12 to 18 months of that funding, that you're essentially going to be creating a company that has an impact on the global economy.

[00:06:24] Nicola McMillan: And the third iteration of that, again, stage gate, is back to that panel of investors and subject matter experts. Because you're at the company formation phase. And we are able to, in Scottish Enterprise, put in, the first investment into the company. So we are able to transact a convertible loan note that's going to bridge the gap between where you are at that point in time and closing your first seed Series A type investment.

[00:06:47] Nicola McMillan: So we've made it very iterative. We've also included a relationship management model there where not only is each project relationship managed by a subject matter expert within my team, but also that we work in partnership with the universities. I think that was my key change to the Programmme was that we don't do this in a passive way, that we are a partner to the university and a partner to the project.

[00:07:10] Nicola McMillan: And anything that we can add to that project to ensure success is what we're really striving to do. 

[00:07:17] Sarah McLusky: It sounds like a really valuable thing because all the academics I've spoken to, these challenges around exactly what you say, investment, market validation. These are the kinds of things that are not everyday life for academics and researchers.

[00:07:30] Sarah McLusky: So these are the things that feel a little bit alien and a little bit that the sorts of things that they need help with. Commercial champions, which is very much the theme of this season of Academic Adventures. They're part of this picture, aren't they part of this team. So how do commercial champions fit into your model?

[00:07:49] Nicola McMillan: So I would say commercial champions. And it's a contentious name. I'm, I wanna put that out there.

[00:07:53] Sarah McLusky: That was, oh no, that's come up again. I'm calling them commercial champions because I think that's what you use, isn't it? But some people use entrepreneurs in residence and all sorts of other things. 

[00:08:02] Nicola McMillan: Yeah, I am. And I have been trying to, over the last five to six years, come up with a term that is actually all encompassing and it's difficult, right? Yeah. It's not a one size fits all approach. So I want to say that and have that kinda on record that commercial champion is not my favorite term. We are not talking about a cheerleader here. And I think that's what that name evokes,

[00:08:23] Sarah McLusky: Right? Yeah.

[00:08:24] Nicola McMillan: We're not talking about a cheerleader, we're not talking about someone who's passive with the project we're talking about someone who wants to get in and gets the hands dirty on this project. So the role is very difficult to define.

[00:08:35] Nicola McMillan: And I sometimes I accept that causes problems at times, but

[00:08:40] Nicola McMillan: And it is a route to success with the High Growth Spinout Programmme. Because these individuals are key differentiators in the funding mechanism that we are able to put in.

[00:08:50] Nicola McMillan: There's not many funding mechanisms that put that as a kinda key part of, of the process. But what we're attempting to do with a commercial champion is bring someone to the table who has a unique understanding of what it takes to go from concept to commercial success and the various stages that come in between.

[00:09:11] Nicola McMillan: And we recognise that there will be different flavours of academics that we're working with. There will be those academics that want to turn their hand to the commercial world and see it very much as a career path. And very much we see, the postdocs, within the academic groups, genuinely considering this as a, as a different, a career option to the academic lifestyle. And it's such a viable option as well. You get to see the real world impact of your research in very different ways. It's not impact through papers. It's actually impact through potentially transforming someone's life with a medical device or a therapeutic or whatever it may be.

[00:09:47] Nicola McMillan: So it's about enabling those individuals to get the right type of support to understand what the day job is going to look like. So for me, my ideal commercial champion, and I always have a couple of names in my head when I think about these individuals, are people who have been there and done that in the past.

[00:10:05] Nicola McMillan: They have likely succeeded and. I'll say that they've likely succeeded or failed. Because failure is almost as important as success in learning the lessons. But my ideal individual is someone who has genuinely taken a concept to the market. They've understood the process of selling into a market, they've understood the process of investor inflection points and what you need to demonstrate in order to bring investment onboard.

[00:10:34] Nicola McMillan: And each investor at each different stage is going to require different things. And they understand the process that's going to take. And they're genuinely invaluable in imparting some of that knowledge. Now some commercial champions will come in on the basis that their role will not be the CEO designate for this Programmme.

[00:10:53] Nicola McMillan: But they may be non-execs, they may be an exec chair ultimately. And there's a separate part of that role, if that's the avenue that they're going down as to either recruit the CEO designate in or to mentor the lead academics, the people who are actually going to leave their institution and take this forward as a business.

[00:11:12] Nicola McMillan: And we've seen many examples where that mentorship approach has worked in practice. And we can showcase some of them. There are some commercial champions who, who use this as, yeah, this is my next role. I want to take another business to exit or to scale or to, whatever level of ambition that they've got.

[00:11:31] Nicola McMillan: And they want to come in as a CEO designate. And again, I think in that type of situation, the relationship between the lead academic and the commercial champion is really key there. Because you're enabling the academic to hand over their baby into someone else's hands. And that I understand is a really difficult transition for an academic.

[00:11:50] Nicola McMillan: And we have other flavours of commercial champions, but for me, those two examples are the ones that, that we, through the High Growth Spinout Programmme, are looking to bring in to, mm-hmm, those types of projects.

[00:12:04] Nicola McMillan: We recognise that there are different skill sets at different times on the journey as well, so, oftentimes if a project employs a commercial champion at the opportunity qualification stage may not be the case that commercial champion takes all the way through the High Growth Spinout Programmme. Okay. Into company creation. So there are. Drop on drop off points. And sometimes that can be relationship led, you know, it's maybe not working out.

[00:12:29] Nicola McMillan: And sometimes there are limitations into what people want to do. So we do recognise that it's not a one size fits all approach to it, but we have an ideal sense of what that looks like. And I suppose where that becomes difficult is if we look over the last five years of the High Growth Spinout Programmme in 2020, we had, I think, six or seven live projects in the portfolio.

[00:12:52] Nicola McMillan: If you look at the portfolio today, we have forty nine live applications, or sorry, live projects in the portfolio and we have 81 projects in our pipeline. 

[00:13:00] Sarah McLusky: Goodness. 

[00:13:02] Nicola McMillan: So it's a significant increase. Yeah. and we've worked really hard with our university partners to enable that increase. And really work the pipeline.

[00:13:12] Nicola McMillan: But we recognise that through that we have caused a bit of a problem because what we don't have is that ideal commercial champion for every project. 

[00:13:23] Sarah McLusky: So you said there that these commercial champions, they really are the secret sauce, so having a bit of a shortage of these people, it creates a little bit of a bottleneck in the system then.

[00:13:35] Nicola McMillan: It does. It does. And we do recognise that, I don't mean we're partly to blame for it. It's great that there's a level of ambition out there within the universities and a recognition that commercialisation is a definition of impact. So we do see that and we see it as a positive thing within the system.

[00:13:53] Nicola McMillan: What I view Scottish Enterprise's role is as well, those gaps that we're starting to see. How do we fill them or how do we enable the system to fill them? So we are looking at new and innovative ways to extend our networks. Yeah. And looking globally for the talent that we're attempting to, procure into Scotland.

[00:14:12] Nicola McMillan: There are a couple of stumbling blocks in the way at the moment. Do we have enough of a pipeline within particular sectors to attract people to, you know, uproot in some ways their families to come to Scotland? We also recognise a challenge with diversity within that pool and how do we make this much more attractive and possible for, female commercial champions to come into play.

[00:14:37] Nicola McMillan: And I have to say, I mentioned earlier on that there was always names in the back of my head when I think of an ideal commercial champion, one of them, top of the list is a female because she, and she's exceptional. At the role that she plays, she's probably been involved in three or four different spin outs from her universities and just an incredibly safe pair of hands to help academics navigate their way through this. Again, she's probably more in that sense that she will be the exec chair of a business. When she, when the eventual spin out comes out. But she's very much left it in the perfect place for a CEO to come into play.

[00:15:11] Nicola McMillan: So we do recognise the challenges, and as I mentioned, I think that Scottish Enterprise's role within this system as a supporter, as a funder, as a partner here is to say okay, what sort of collective role in fixing that problem? Yeah. I don't think that we've got a lack of people. I think we've got a lack of people seeing the pipeline.

[00:15:28] Nicola McMillan: Yeah. And seeing this as the opportunity. So how do we unlock that? And how do we enable these opportunities to be much more visible to the wider system? Within Scotland, we know that we've got a very entrepreneurial base within Scotland, so how do we bring that group to these opportunities.

[00:15:45] Nicola McMillan: So that's again, part of the role that we play within this.

[00:15:48] Sarah McLusky: Yeah. It's interesting you say about this not necessarily lack of people, but as you say, getting the right people and almost helping people to realise that this is an opportunity that's suitable for them. And I know that in the previous episode where I talked to Hamish about the report that he's been doing around some of these gaps, and that is one of the things, is this sense of what does the role look like?

[00:16:15] Sarah McLusky: What do we call it? You've just said that already. What do we call it? What's the job description, what's the time commitment, what's the compensation for that, and all of these things coming together. Do you have any sense of where you think a little bit of change might make a big difference?

[00:16:33] Nicola McMillan: Yeah, and we have been talking about this to our university partners actually only this week in terms of, I think actually the 19 universities within Scotland. I think we've got a real need to sit down collectively to talk about this and we've started to bring that conversation together through, we have a kinda quarterly technology transfer update session. And I really didn't want that to be a download of information from us. I wanted it to be much more of an open conversation from the tech transfer teams to say what's your problems and how can we solve them? And talent, I have to say, more so than investment, more so probably than any other point? Talent is the number one problem that the universities and ourselves recognise is probably the limiting factor to success here. So there are things that I think that we absolutely can do as a collective, and it is round about that really being clear about what the job description is.

[00:17:22] Nicola McMillan: I know Hamish was very focused on the onboarding process. Who is it that talks to that individual in the first instance to almost sell the job? Yeah. And what does that look like as you see in terms of time commitment? I think we need to be very clear with these individuals that it is an all encompassing role.

[00:17:40] Nicola McMillan: And I often hear people talk about it, from the making the tea to, the whining and dining of the investors. It's in every single part of the role is something that you're going to have to take on. Yeah. Because it's all encompassing and it's the reason why, you know, people who have been there and done that before accept and acknowledge that because they've been through it.

[00:18:00] Nicola McMillan: Whereas it's much, it's probably much more difficult from someone who's come from a corporate environment to realise that actually you're going to be down there in the weeds with these projects. And sometimes you will be a counselor to individuals. Sometimes you will be, the champion.

[00:18:14] Nicola McMillan: Genuine champion, the evangelist of that technology and the sales process. So it's difficult to define. And it is generally on a case by case basis, depending on the project that we've got at hand. And depending on the strengths of the academics that we've got there, it. Each role will be slightly different.

[00:18:32] Nicola McMillan: But I accept that what we can get to is at least the points where we know that the stumbling blocks over, we get that generic job description. We get that generic onboarding programmme underway. So that's something that we're looking at, as a matter of urgency, because we will take Hamish's report and we will work on it.

[00:18:48] Nicola McMillan: And it is the feedback that we have received from our TTO partners. So it's not perfect right now. I acknowledge that. But it's certainly something. As the rate limiting factor, we know that we need to address this. Yeah. But it's in partnership with the system. It's not Scottish Enterprise doing that on its own because we have to make sure that everyone's voice is heard there, including the commercial champions and including the academics.

[00:19:11] Sarah McLusky: Yeah. And I'm sure, as you say, as a partnership role, the universities will have people within their networks, within their alumni who they might think could help to fill some of these gaps as well. So yeah, it's never gonna be one organisation that has all the right relationships, is it? 

[00:19:28] Nicola McMillan: Yeah. And interestingly, we were speaking to, some partners down in the Northern Accelerator region, so Newcastle Durham region. And it's really interesting because I think in Scotland we live in a bit of a bubble and we think that everybody else has, its sussed, it's the kinda Scottish mentality.

[00:19:43] Nicola McMillan: But interestingly it was hugely helpful having a conversation with another region because the same problems exist. And they've actually come up with quite a unique and interesting way to address some of this. So we'll take some learning from that as well. We also went down to the Cambridge region.

[00:20:00] Nicola McMillan: Because again, we all look at that kind of golden triangle and think, they've definitely got it sussed. But it was really humbling to actually hear from the Cambridge University themselves that actually, we actually live in a much more competitive bubble. There's much more competition for commercial talent down here because of the scale of the system that they exist in.

[00:20:20] Nicola McMillan: So it was something that I hadn't actually considered so that, you. We're maybe in a lot of ways better off than the kinda Cambridge ecosystem because we don't have that much competition for it. But there's definitely things that we can change. And definitely doing that in partnership is the approach that I'd like to take forward.

[00:20:36] Sarah McLusky: And it's interesting you said as well earlier on, that you're even looking globally for the people who might come in and help to support these projects. 

[00:20:45] Nicola McMillan: Yep. And I think that, that's a project that we're taking forward on a pilot basis right now. Again I mentioned that if I look at the kind of the stumbling blocks that we've got in kinda creating genuinely global, ambitious companies it's not the lack of research excellence. The research excellence is clear. I think we all understand that. So why are we not creating globally ambitious companies at scale? And for me, that comes right back down to talent and network. So what we're doing at the moment, we've got a pilot programmme right now with a global entity where essentially what we're hoping to do there is access their talent networks. And we have two projects within the portfolio that are going through this at the moment. And it is it's not the programmme that they're going through that's important to us. It's actually the third party's access to talent networks. The corporate access that they've got and the investor networks.

[00:21:40] Nicola McMillan: And it all comes down to people for me. And if we can start to fix some of those problems by tapping into global networks, then that I think will be hugely transformational within the system. One other talent piece that, that we have been trialing and we're about to kinda go to phase two on it, is using the Global Scot network.

[00:21:58] Nicola McMillan: So we have a Global Scot network within Scottish Enterprise. For the life of me. I can't remember how many there are, but these are captains of industry who have an affiliation with Scotland. We have people from, global pharma companies, global energy companies, et cetera.

[00:22:13] Nicola McMillan: So very relevant to kinda like the new startups and spin outs that we've got here. And what we're trying to do is pull a group of global Scots around about particular opportunities because. They can impart their knowledge, so it's just about getting the right knowledge into the projects effectively, efficiently, so that they're not overloaded with, you know, opinion. But it's at the right stage for them to actually kinda hear that knowledge. So we are looking globally to actually access those talent networks, people to enable the, the scale of ambition, the scale of knowledge that's imparted on these projects to be elevated ever so slightly.

[00:22:47] Sarah McLusky: Oh, it sounds like something to watch. So you've said there that when you're thinking about the people who have really made a difference, you've got some examples in your head of when it's worked really well. It doesn't necessarily need to be naming names but what does it look like for you? What does it feel like for you when a project's going really well? 

[00:23:08] Nicola McMillan: I suppose it's, I think sometimes for the projects, it's like us handing over our babies to people as well because we get so heavily engaged with the projects.

[00:23:18] Nicola McMillan: When we've got a good commercial champion, it's a joy to be part of the journey alongside them. Yes, there's difficult parts. Yes, there's frustrating parts of it, but what the projects have is a clear and focused vision about the what next on a month to month basis, and you can see the progress. And when you start to see the progress really kinda capitalize, that's when you know that you've got that secret sauce, right?

[00:23:44] Nicola McMillan: And there are many examples of it because their success stories over the last five or six years, and they're not our success stories. They're not Scottish Enterprise success stories. They're the company's successes. But when you get it right. The progress is apparent and it's apparent at pace.

[00:23:59] Nicola McMillan: And I think that's the difference that you can see between, a project that's gone really well and a project that potentially doesn't have, the, all of the elements quite correct. The projects can still be challenging despite the right people in place. And that could be for a variety of different reasons.

[00:24:16] Nicola McMillan: Ultimately, there's always a plan B. When one thing doesn't go right, there is an alternative to that. And how do we actually get there? What really gets me when a good commercial champion is in play is the doors that they're able to open for the projects, whether that be commercial contacts.

[00:24:32] Nicola McMillan: Whether that be investor contacts, and quite often if a commercial champion has been there and done that before they go back to the same investors, whether there's been a track record or an exit, for example. Because I think we've all got this notion that investors invest in people and they certainly invest in people that have given them a return.

[00:24:51] Nicola McMillan: In terms of, there's already a relationship there, there's a trust there, so if we get all of that the journey tends to be pretty seamless. And we do have those examples. We deal with risky projects, we deal with risky and early stage technologies.

[00:25:07] Nicola McMillan: That's not to say that if a good commercial campaign goes into a good project, it's always going to be a success. And we know that. And, but again, I think we, a good commercial champion comes into their own in that situation is resilience. To see that either the market might not be right for you right now. The technology needs more development. It might be quite a nascent, sector we might be five years ahead of where it, almost, where the market currently is. But it's about maintaining that resilience and understanding, how to approach a business in that way.

[00:25:38] Nicola McMillan: A good commercial champion knows when it's not going to happen. And that's as equally as important as the success stories because what we want to do then is actually, get that science into somewhere else, progress the science, don't waste people's time on it, and then we can find another opportunity for that commercial champion to be involved in.

[00:25:58] Nicola McMillan: So it's not all plain sailing, even if it is good tech, good people but nine times out of 10, if we get that you can see the progress being quite significant. 

[00:26:06] Sarah McLusky: Yeah. It's really interesting you're saying there about a good commercial champion knows when to walk away. And the fact that as well, when you said that the kind of people you're looking for aren't necessarily people who've successfully built a company, but they've just had that experience of going through the process and as you say, they've learned maybe what are the warning signs of when things are not going well.

[00:26:31] Sarah McLusky: So it, I think that's. Almost an important message to get out as well, isn't it? Is that you're not necessarily only looking for people who've had some massive success, some kind of million pounds exit and all that sort of stuff. It's actually just people who understand the process. 

[00:26:52] Nicola McMillan: Yeah. And not everybody will un understand all aspects of the process. And again, I always think of people when I think of my examples. So probably about a year and a half ago we were introduced to an individual who'd very much been in that corporate world. A medical device background. What he's been able to bring to probably two or three of the projects now is an understanding of the product to market.

[00:27:16] Nicola McMillan: And but while what he doesn't have is that investor experience, but he absolutely understands how to take a concept, build the concept, and actually sell that concept to the marketplace, which is hugely valuable within that sector. Because investors in that sector in particular are likely to be looking at someone who can actually then sell product.

[00:27:37] Nicola McMillan: So I'm not saying that a commercial champion has to have every element of it. They don't. But they have to be willing to learn and they have to be willing to be coached. And that's where other people within the system come in to play. We don't just leave a commercial champion to flounder at that point in time, we've got access to commercial advisors who are experts in the investment piece that we can put into projects to support the commercial champion. And that's always one thing that I think is quite an interesting part of the role that we play within Scottish Enterprise is to remind commercial champions you don't need to do everything. We can help you with it. We have people within my own team who are experts in the investment piece or product development piece. We can supplement your skills and we can through the High Growth Spinout Programmme. We can employ consultants to do a particular piece. Maybe that be regulatory, maybe it's the health economics piece, whatever it might be. The Programmme should be there to support all aspects of the business and support the commercial champion to learn themselves. So it's a learning experience for them as well. And even if you have had successes or multiple successes, you haven't had it with this business, there will be things to learn.

[00:28:47] Nicola McMillan: So I always urge people to come into these roles with an open mind and the promise that we won't leave you floundering if there is an issue. What we will also do is challenge you however and I think sometimes you, what we're attempting to do is get the project team, the academic and the commercial champion into the mindset of what an investor's going to ask you or what a customer's going to ask you.

[00:29:10] Nicola McMillan: So we do have to have the appropriate level of challenge. We're not challenging for challenges sake we're challenging because we know the process, we know how that's going to play out in reality, and we're attempting to prepare you for it. So it's not a passive Programmme. The High Growth Spinout Programmme, we are involved in it and we're involved to support the commercial champions through that journey.

[00:29:31] Sarah McLusky: What's coming through really strongly for me is how much this is about the people and it's not necessarily, and I think people always think that it's about if you've got like a great idea or a great product, that should be enough but clearly there's so many moving pieces and getting those right people in place at the right time is key.

[00:29:50] Nicola McMillan: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think even if you have a stellar product. And you have something that's genuinely market making which we do have, and that's again, a real strength of the Scottish system is we do have technologies that fit that bracket. It's still about how you sell that and how you sell that both to a customer and how you sell that to an investor to enable your company to be created in such a way that it's scalable.

[00:30:13] Nicola McMillan: So it's about the understanding. Again, back to the ambition piece, it's do you have the ambition for this company, to genuinely go and transform markets and genuinely go out and impact people's lives. So the ambition piece is super important for me in all of this because it's core to the values of Scottish Enterprise as well.

[00:30:34] Nicola McMillan: We're not looking for lifestyle businesses. We're looking for transformational businesses, genuinely scalable opportunities, and that's down to the people because they need to understand then how to sell that into the global market. And, displace other technologies and what the story looks like to displace those other technologies. So it's very much about the people in my opinion. 

[00:30:55] Sarah McLusky: Yeah. Well, If there are people listening, then who've got that ambition, who've got the experience, they feel they might be able to contribute, what is the best way to find out about the Programmme or to get in touch with you? 

[00:31:05] Nicola McMillan: Sure. Genuinely get in touch with us. We've got seven members within the team, all of whom would be able to kinda tell you that High Growth Spin Out Programmme. On our website, our Scottish Enterprise High Growth company creation website. We have videos, we have resources on there that, talks about it from the commercial champions experience.

[00:31:23] Nicola McMillan: So I would urge anybody to go and have a look at that because I'm incredibly proud of them because the ambition and the importance of the commercial champion really comes across both from the academics perspective, but also you know, the, the enjoyment that a commercial champion gets out of it as well.

[00:31:39] Nicola McMillan: So I would say first point of call, look at our website and then obviously contact ourselves if you think that you fit the bill. We're always open to speak to individuals and then we can start to make those introductions to the universities as well. 

[00:31:52] Sarah McLusky: Fantastic. We'll get those links and put them in the show notes.

[00:31:55] Sarah McLusky: So thank you so much for taking the time to come along and tell us all about the High Growth Spin Out Programmme. I'm sure it's gonna be an excellent addition to the podcast series. Thank you.

[00:32:05] Nicola McMillan: Thank you, Sarah.

[00:32:09] Sarah McLusky: If you've been inspired by this podcast, head over to our LinkedIn page and tell us about your biggest takeaways. You'll find a link in the show notes or just search for the Academic Adventures Podcast. This podcast is a collaboration between the University of the West of Scotland, Converge and Sarah McLusky, working in partnership with Ross Tuffee and the Connect-Ed Network.

[00:32:28] Sarah McLusky: The podcast team includes Orla Kelly, Adam Kosterka, Jen Black, and me, Sarah McLusky. This season of the Academic Adventures Podcast is supported by the Scottish Funding Council.