“If the barriers aren’t broken down, we’re missing out on a lot of talent and potential.” with Diana Gormley

Diana Gormley is the Founder of business consulting firm Danu Solutions Ltd, as well as being an Entrepreneur in Residence at Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen.

Diana explains why she wants to break down barriers and get more people involved in entrepreneurship including:

• The Women in Business course that helped her transition from engineering to running her own company
• Making entrepreneurial concepts and language accessible and relevant 
• How universities can make good use of their Entrepreneurs in Residence
• Why she thinks university staff need more access to support and opportunities

Connect with Diana on LinkedIn or via email

Find out more about Danu Solutions Ltd

Follow the Academic Adventures podcast on LinkedIn

This podcast was a collaboration between the University of the West of Scotland, Converge and Sarah McLusky, working in partnership with Ross Tuffee and The Connect-Ed Network. The podcast team includes Orla Kelly, Adam Kosterka, Jen Black and Sarah McLusky. This season of Academic Adventures is supported by the Scottish Funding Council.

Transcript

Diana Gormley  00:01

If those barriers aren't broken down at an earlier stage, I just think we're doing those people a bit of a disservice, and we're probably missing out on a lot of talent and a lot of potential. So many people doing really amazing things and really innovative things, but because it's such a big organization, a lot of them aren't aware of what the others are doing.

Sarah McLusky  00:22

Welcome to The Academic Adventures Podcast. This podcast is all about the journey from teaching research and innovation to real world solutions. For season two, we are joined by experienced founders and other experts who work alongside university staff and students to help create and support culture of enterprise on campus. 

Sarah McLusky  00:42

Hello there. This is the third episode in Season Two of The Academic Adventures Podcast. And as always, I'm your host. Sarah McLusky,. Today I'm delighted to introduce you to Diana Gormley. Diana is the founder of consulting business Danu Solutions, a venture that she launched after a long career in engineering and manufacturing. And of course, Diana also supports entrepreneurship in higher education. She's currently a Royal Society Entrepreneur in Residence at Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen. Diana shares how a career break and a Women in Business course set her off on her current path, and why she's motivated to encourage others to do the same. We also talk about how universities can make good use of their EIRs, which is the abbreviation for Entrepreneurs in Residence, why she thinks university staff don't get the same opportunities and support as students, and what she's doing to try and change that. 

Sarah McLusky  01:37

Welcome along to The Academic Adventures Podcast Diana. It is fantastic to have you here. I wonder if you could begin by giving yourself a little introduction. Tell us a bit about who you are and what you do. 

Diana Gormley  01:47

Okay, thank you for having me. My name is Diana Gormley, and I am a mechanical and manufacturing engineer, and I have now moved on after about 15 years in industry followed by a career break. I'm now a founder of my own company and an Entrepreneur in Residence with Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen. 

Sarah McLusky  02:11

Yeah. So it's particularly that Entrepreneur in Residence part that we're really interested in hearing a bit more about today. But before we get on to talking about that side of things, just tell us a bit about, yeah, your career and what you do now, and how you got to where you are.

Diana Gormley  02:25

So I started off as a mechanical and manufacturing engineer, and spent a number of years in mechanical design. I then took a bit of a sidestep and went and trained as a secondary school teacher, and did that for a couple of years. And so I was teaching physics. I then decided I missed industry, so went back and I spent some time working in quality and manufacturing. And manufacturing was really, it was the bit that I really, really loved. I sort of felt that I had found my thing. Because engineering so broad.

Sarah McLusky  02:57

What kinds of things were you manufacturing, involved in manufacturing?

Diana Gormley  03:02

It was, it was heavy engineering. So it was big rock crushing machines for quite a while

Sarah McLusky  03:06

Oh wow. 

Diana Gormley  03:07

So they were, like, sort of 50 to 90 tonnes. They were big machines with quite a lot of technology. So it was, it was really interesting. And I quite liked the design part was interesting, but I quite like being a bit more hands on. And part of what I loved was the manufacturing side of things, was just working with all sorts of different people across the company, at all levels, that sort of led me on to where I've ended up now. 

Sarah McLusky  03:32

Yeah, so you worked in that manufacturing industry. What? How, like, how long did you do that sort of thing? Were you in lots of different companies, or did you just stick with that, that, that one thing?

Diana Gormley  03:44

Yeah. So I, the first company I worked for actually produced ground support equipment for airports, the steps, you know, for boarding the planes and baggage carts and all those sorts of things. I then worked for a couple of different companies, and it was all because of where I'm from, the big industry, there was quarry equipment and that sort of thing. So we spent a lot of time working in in that sort of industry across couple of different companies. I also worked for a while with Seagate Technology, who do the computer hard drives. So that was that was very different, and that was a really good experience as well. So lots of, lots of sort of different experiences, but I think it's, it's actually really served me well, because it's made me a lot more adaptable and sort of better at seeing the big picture. And I find that that's really, you know, it's been really valuable as I've got further on in my career,

Sarah McLusky  04:40

And that, I imagine, really valuable with this Entrepreneur in Residence role, which, yeah, we'll come to in just a moment. So how did you transition then, from the the manufacturing engineering side of things into what you do now? 

Diana Gormley  04:56

Well, I actually took a career break, and when I was having my family, and that was really good, because it gave me space to reflect on what I'd done and what I wanted to do going forward. And I I started to think about setting up my own business. And up until that point, I would have been very much, no, not for me. I'm happy to be employed. But I started to think, you know, I think, think I am, I'd like to do this. And I always, I'd always performed best when I was given responsibility and autonomy. So that side of things really appealed to me as well. And I thought, yeah, I'd been thinking a lot about it, and, you know, reading a lot of books and things. And I just happened to see Robert Gordon University advertising their Women in Business programmeme. And it was, it was just a few days before the deadline, and it was I hadn't heard of it before. It was, well, it was actually I was in the first cohort, so I signed up to that. And that was a complete eye opener for me, because I think up until that point, I, like a lot of other people, had a this idea of what an entrepreneur was, and had ideas about business, and that was actually fed by, actually, the education system that I had come through up until that point. So even in university, when I was studying engineering, one of the courses was engineering with business studies, one of the degree courses, and even the lecturers would have openly, kind of made fun of the students and, you know, jokes that you know. Do you do you do flower arranging and things like this, you know? So there was this perception that business was somehow not, like, a valuable, 

Sarah McLusky  06:28

Yeah, like, not serious, 

Diana Gormley  06:30

Yeah, yeah. And as I, as I got older, I realized that's like, ridiculous, just so, yeah, Women in Business, it was, it was fantastic. And it was, for me, it was, it was just, it just opened up the whole field and made it so much more accessible, yeah, so that that really got me,

Sarah McLusky  06:50

That sounds like a really valuable programmeme. So what sorts of things did you learn on the programmeme that were particularly helpful?

Sarah McLusky  06:56

It's amazing that you were able to get those positive messages and get that positive support, especially given the experience that you had before with this idea of what entrepreneurship could be. So that's fantastic grounding for taking you on to the next thing. So yeah, tell us about the business that you run now

Diana Gormley  06:56

At the beginning, they, they looked a lot around, things around, you know, what actually drives you, you know your but like the Simon Sinek, you know your why, and you know looking at your your values and all that sort of thing. And actually find that really valuable to sort of tap into that and and to figure out what I want to do. And so for me, I mean, it might sound like a bit of a cliche, but I'm very driven to, you know, make a difference, particularly to people and breaking down barriers and those sorts of things. And when I reflected back on what I had done up until that point, that was all the sort of things I had been doing, but it didn't fully recognize that that's what it was, yeah. So a lot of that was really helpful. And, I mean, there was the business tools as well. And that was that was really useful. But I think it was, it was the idea that surrounding all that was this idea that you could actually do it. It was a viable alternative. Didn't have to be this, you know, stereotypical entrepreneur that, you know, the really well known ones. So, yeah, it was, it was a brilliant programmeme.

Diana Gormley  08:18

So what I do now is it's, it's a training consultancy business, and it's all around continuous improvement and bringing in Lean. So I would have worked a lot with Lean in the manufacturing context, but it's, it's not just for manufacturing. I think a lot of people maybe don't realize that, or don't realize the value that it can bring to their organization. 

Sarah McLusky  08:44

Tell us a little bit more. For anybody who doesn't know what Lean is

Sarah McLusky  08:47

Yeah and it sounds like that, focus on people that you've got now and and essentially, you know, yeah, making the most of the people that you've got in a business. It makes sense then now, why you wanted to get involved in something like the Entrepreneur in rResidence programme? So, so tell us a bit about how that came about. 

Diana Gormley  08:47

So very basically, it's, it's identifying sources of waste in what you do and and reducing them as much as possible, trying to eliminate them. And that can be, there's all sorts of different types of waste. I mean, some of it can be things like even the under, under utilization of people and their skills. So it's not just sometimes when people hear the word waste, they think rubbish, or, you know, yeah, and there's obviously the, you know, the things like wasted time and and emotion and all this. But I think for me as well, it's at its very heart it's about, it's actually about people and respect for people, and building people. And I think that's something that can sometimes get a bit lost. But for me, to really maximize the business benefits, you need to you need to really focus on your people and bring them with you. And as part of that of bring bringing in the sort of learnings from change management and cultural transformation and that sort of thing as well. So it's, it's quite a holistic approach.

Diana Gormley  10:09

That actually came, I think it led on a bit from women in business, because I had, I'd taken part in that. I had gone on to start up a different business, and I had been in touch with the university, you know, all along then they approached me to see if I would be interested in applying for this scheme. So I actually hadn't heard of it before. I didn't know what an Entrepreneur in Residence was, but I found out a bit more about it, and sounded really interesting, so I agreed, and here I am, and I think it's a for me, I've always been really interested in, you know, promoting STEM and things like that. So, you know, it was a very active STEM Ambassador when I worked for the previous companies. And I think, as well, having the experience of working with kids in secondary school, I've a big interest in, you know, making things more accessible. You know, there's so many facets to that, but making things more accessible and helping students to see the relevance of what they're doing, because, you know, I think students don't, you know, they don't have the benefit of our experience, yeah, our life experience, and sometimes it's very hard for them to see ahead and to see see relevance. And I think understanding relevance can make a massive difference to to their learning. And it just, I think there's a lot of barriers along the way as well that people maybe aren't aware of. And an example of it that I've come across is actually the language that's used as something I've become really interested in.

Sarah McLusky  11:45

What sorts of language have you found to be particularly problematic?

Diana Gormley  11:49

A lot of the suppose the standard entrepreneurial language, I find that it's actually a barrier to a lot of people. I mean, 

Sarah McLusky  11:57

Even the term, even the term entrepreneur, some people find challenging, don't they?

Diana Gormley  12:02

Yeah, and you know, I've spoken to lots of students, and I've asked them things like, what, what do you think of when you hear the word entrepreneur or the term entrepreneurial mindset? And their answers have been really, in some cases, quite surprising in other cases that you know, it would have been what I expected. But very, very few people, especially with entrepreneurial mindset, very few people see that, that as sort of transferable skills. And I just think that if we can break down those barriers a bit more, I think it will really help more people to get involved in, you know, entrepreneurship. And I think there's going to be lots of people like me who will have their career for a few years and work for someone else, and then they'll decide to maybe start their own business. But I think if they don't have, you know, if those barriers aren't broken down at an earlier stage, I just think we're doing those people a bit of a disservice, and we're probably missing out on a lot of talent and a lot of potential. 

Sarah McLusky  13:04

Yeah, I think there is a real opportunity, isn't there, when people are in an environment like a university, to sow those seeds, even if it doesn't happen immediately, as you say, if people have got that language, if they've got that sense that this is something that's possible for them, at some point in the future, it doesn't have to be right now that can, that can be really worthwhile, can't it? 

Diana Gormley  13:26

Yeah

Sarah McLusky  13:27

Yeah. So tell us a bit about what you do as an Entrepreneur in Residence. You said they're just like, is it just having conversations with students, or are you doing more formal activities and things? 

Diana Gormley  13:40

Yeah. So I help to deliver two postgrad modules, to engineering students, and that's all around the UN SDGs, sustainable development goals, creating engineering solutions that help to address those. So it's, it's been really, really interesting, because I think it's, and I've seen the barriers thing there as well. You know, sometimes initially the students are, you can tell they're just thinking, why, why am I doing this? Why am I studying this? I'm an engineer. This isn't engineering, but as they as they go through it, and, you know, the style of teaching is very different from normal lectures, it's a lot more energetic and group work and collaborative. And, you know, the students are doing lots of, lots of small presentations, you know, it helps to, you know, build up their confidence. It's a it's just a really different way of of teaching and learning, and it's really fun and it's really effective. So I've been involved in that, and that's been that's really good.

Sarah McLusky  14:43

Could you maybe give us an example? So for people who aren't that familiar with the UN Sustainable Development Goals, and maybe just to illustrate the sorts of things you've been doing, maybe give us an example of one of the one of those goals and something that students have come up with as a solution.

Diana Gormley  15:00

Okay, so one of the most recent ones, which I really liked, actually, was they were addressing issues of plastic pollution in the ocean, was fishing net and the threat to wildlife. So the team came up with the idea of creating a plant-based fishing net that actually would last longer than the plastics currently used, but that would 

Sarah McLusky  15:26

Ultimately be biodegradable. Yeah

Diana Gormley  15:28

Yeah, in a shorter times. And they had found that fishermen tend to only use their nets for three years, so once that their net could last long enough, no they could. So those that was one example, you know, of a project. There was others that had come up with solutions to to tackle issues like food security, water security, poverty, energy. There was that was a big one as well, lots of really innovative and creative thinking going on.

Sarah McLusky  16:02

And do you know if those were maybe it's too early to tell now, but if any of those students that you've worked with have actually, not necessarily gone on and taken one of those ideas into reality, but if maybe it's inspired them to maybe change the path that they thought they were going to take. 

Diana Gormley  16:19

Yeah, yeah, definitely. There was, I know there's one, one guy in particular has comes to mind from last year. He's been really active since he finished his Masters, and pursuing some some ideas. He's very much still pre-startup, but his he's really passionate about it, and it's and it was interesting, because when I worked with that group, I did a session around around values and things like that, and figuring out, you know, your motivations. And it actually landed really well, which surprised me. And what I really saw from the students was they were very driven by the idea of making an impact. Think quite a lot of them have come from other countries that maybe experience a lot more poverty than we do and a lot more challenges. And the idea that they could use their engineering skills to do something about that, I think they find that really empowering.

Sarah McLusky  17:14

Certainly those sustainable development goals really the challenges that they outline, affect a lot of other countries, much more than the UK, don't they? So, yeah, oh, that's fantastic, if it feels like you're giving people tools that they could do something with. So I can tell from from the way you're talking about these projects, the way you're talking about these students, the sorts of things you've said that for you, you know, helping people is part of what motivates you and makes you want to be part of this Entrepreneur in Residence programme. You've also said, as well, you said near the beginning that you think you're good at seeing the big picture and kind of seeing how all the pieces come together. How do you think that's helpful in being an Entrepreneur in Residence?

Sarah McLusky  17:57

Yeah

Diana Gormley  17:57

I think it, so it's been interesting to observe, you know, the university as a whole, and seeing how the different departments work together, but also how, you know, there's so many people doing really amazing things and really innovative things, but because it's such a big organization, a lot of them aren't aware of what the others are doing. So I think, I think there's an interesting opportunity there for sharing best practice across the university. And it's not just the university that I'm working with at the minute. It's, I think that's a more general thing, and I think it's, again, with the benefit of life experience. You know, I think it's quite interesting to speak to some of the students and understand where they've come from, where they are now. You know, I understand where they where their path is taking them at the minute, but it's also quite nice to be able to show them that there are so many other alternatives. 

Diana Gormley  19:00

And some of the students, you know, they've seen that, and they're now, you know, taking a different direction. And they're, you know, they're students from this year as well that haven't finished their Masters yet. And they're, they're already getting really heavily involved in in the entrepreneurship side of things. And for me, I mean, particularly things like engineering, it lends itself so well to innovation. I think, as well, it's seeing the staff members that something that I've noticed is students are actually, I think, pretty well supported. I think the staff are kind of getting a bit missed out in the whole picture. So there's a lot of work has been done, you know, by other EIRs around, you know, helping spin outs and early career researchers and that sort of group of people. And the students are being well supported as well the, you know, the undergrads and the in the postgrads. But I think, you know, we're, we're trying to drive all this change, and we're trying to spread the word, yeah, on entrepreneurship and innovation. But I don't think we're actually, we're not actually giving the staff members the tools so that they can feel confident to help with that, you know. So I think, I think that's like a bit of a piece that's missing, and that's something that I'm working on at the minute with Robert Gordon University. So, yeah, it'll be interesting to see where that goes.

Sarah McLusky  20:23

Yeah, it seems I can tell that you're you're itching when you've said, when you were talking there about how you can see all these things going on around you in the university, but it's not quite joined up. I can tell that you're itching to kind of start to pull some of those threads together and see if you can have a more holistic offer, you know, that covers the whole of the university, the whole of the organization, not just this one cohort of students. So, yeah, that would be an interesting thing to watch and see what comes of it. So from your experience, what do you think are maybe, maybe advice, or it's things you've experienced, things you've seen, that you would give around. What's the best way to make use of an Entrepreneur in Residence in an organization like a university?

Diana Gormley  21:14

I think there's definitely a balance to be struck. So I've spoken to lots of different EIRs, and the experience has been quite different across the board. So some are very much just left to their own devices, and don't really seem to have very much interaction at all. I have been very much included in the Entrepreneurship and Innovation Group, and you know, there was a project was mapped out for me for my first year, and that didn't quite go according to plan, because, you know, there's been a lot of disruption in the sector and everything, and we had to change things a bit. But I do think there's a middle ground, because, well, it has, it has to benefit the university. And so I think it's good that the university has an idea for how, you know, the EIR will will help them, but I also think to really make use of the EIRs, you know, experience and, you know, creativity and everything, I think there needs to be definitely a good level of autonomy as well. A lot of EIRs I spoke to as well, said that they felt that it took quite a long time to get going. And I did find that as well, because especially if you're going into an organization where you don't you don't know anybody, it takes quite a while actually, to figure out who everybody is, what they do, meet people, start to build relationships. And I think once you do that, it's quite slow at the start, and that can be a bit frustrating, you know, when you're used to maybe doing things differently. But I think once you start to really spend the time at the start, to build the relationships, it really does help, I think then to progress things later on.

Sarah McLusky  22:55

Yeah, I think it's that challenge, isn't it, that people who work in independent businesses often they're working with very small teams and able to do things very quickly. And then you come in somewhere, like a university, that's a big, complicated organization, lots of different people, lots of doing lots of different things. It definitely takes a while to get your head around who's who, and I know, and from some of the things you've said, find those places where you can connect the dots, where you can be useful and and where you can do something that's going to be genuinely valuable and empowering for those staff and students. Fantastic. Well, I think what? What do you think's next for you and your Entrepreneur in Residence role at Robert Gordon? You've said you're sort of coming up to the end of of a year with this cohort of students. Is it going to be continuing next year, or do you have other things on the horizon?

Diana Gormley  23:46

So there, there will be a bunch of students from Japan coming over in the summer, and so we'll, I'll get to work with them, which will be brilliant. I had that experience last summer as well, and they were absolutely amazing. They're such a great bunch. Also work on a programme of training for staff members. And so we're, we're going to run a pilot, and, you know, make some improvements and things from that. And then the idea is that we'll maybe try and roll it out further across the university. Just the idea that it's, it's empowering the staff with, you know, with the knowledge and and skills that they feel comfortable and confident to to implement some of the things in their in their teaching and learning practices. So that that'll take a chunk of my time as well. I have some ideas. They're still in the idea phase that I have proposed around follow up programmes. So we have, you know, things like Women in Business, but it's like, what's the next step then to support, you know, those women further along the line, the university have a fantastic accelerator programme. It's just finished up a few weeks ago, but I think there's, I think there's opportunity there to I think there's some little gaps that, you know, that's probably something that we could do to to support more people. 

Sarah McLusky  25:05

Well, watch this space. Yeah, that'd be exciting to see where, where those go to. So I think we should think about wrapping up our conversation. So if anybody would like to find out more about you or the work that you're doing, whereabouts, would you suggest that they go and have a look?

Diana Gormley  25:23

Well, I hang out on LinkedIn, so yeah, Diana Gormley, and people will see that I'm I have EIR in my in my description, and my company name is Danu Solutions, and if they want to look that up.

Sarah McLusky  25:40

Fantastic. Well, I can make sure I put all those links and things in the show notes. So it just remains to say, thank you so much for coming along and sharing your story. It's been great to meet you. Thank you.

Diana Gormley  25:52

Thank you, Sarah. 

Sarah McLusky  25:52

If you've been inspired by this podcast, head over to our LinkedIn page and tell us about your biggest takeaways. You'll find a link in the show notes, or just search for the Academic Adventures Podcast. This podcast is a collaboration between the University of the West of Scotland, Converge and Sarah McLusky, working in partnership with Ross Tuffee and the Connect-Ed Network. The podcast team includes Orla Kelly, Adam Kosterka, Jen Black and me, Sarah McLusky. This season of The Academic Adventures Podcast is supported by the Scottish Funding Council.